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Post by Gavin Graves on Feb 16, 2022 15:34:31 GMT -8
Numerous interesting details were flowing from the Witch's lips. They spun together with the whispering chatter of dry leaves placing the ideas in better order and implying context. Mary's perspective seemed to come from a specific motive though. She pitied them. The discussion was loosely about how to save them, even as near impossibly difficult as she made it sound. Freeing the Huntsman or the person wasn't Gavin's primary motivation for his knowledge seeking. He wanted to understand how Huntsmen worked so he could upset the Fae's plans. That could mean saving the person. It could also mean wielding the properties of the magic against its user. He wanted options, even if they appeared niche to begin with. The Court of Fear dealt heavily in stolen magic. The scariest thing to one of Them is one of us knowing them too well. He had seen it all to well with the Angel of Blades. Mitch learned his Keeper's Bane, and that thing was torn to shreds trying to stop him with single minded purpose.
It sounded as if there were three parts to these wretches: Human, Huntsman, and Horror. The Fae Horror empowered a Huntsman with a Title. The Huntsman's Heart was then hidden in a human's Bastion. This meant there was a third entity involved as a matter of course. The Huntsman would have to either exist on its own prior to this ritual, or it was somehow whole-cloth created by the ritual and its components swapped out for effect. The magic of Keepers stayed on theme though, links in a chain. How like the slavers of Arcadia to extend chains of magically bound beings to bind and drag the Lost back to Their embrace.
"All that I've seen have been like Arcadian terrors or the most monstrous of Hobs in their forms. I've only ever seen them directly in their unmasked forms and one in wildly differing masks on video carrying a consistent symbol between its numerous appearances--a Death's Head Moth. You said the Huntsman wears a human like a suit of armour."
Could each link in the chain be a bi-directional exchange rather than 'simple' displacement? The human immunity to Iron was returned to the Huntsman in exchange for its Heart. The heart was replaced with the power of the Title. The Huntsman held none of the limitations of its Wyrd influence. Could the Keeper take on those burdens as part of that exchange? He wondered.
"If the Heart is hidden in some unknown human Bastion, and the Huntsman has been empowered by a Title, the Huntsman we encounter is itself either a second person or something else to begin with before the Title and Heart changes are made to it. What is it?"
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Post by Blaze on Feb 18, 2022 11:00:57 GMT -8
Blaze's line of thinking was much simpler than Gavin's, as she couldn't claim the experience he wielded - meaning her questions also stayed much more grounded. The specific ontology of Huntsmen bothered her less than practical matters of survival that could free her, Wayland and Eis from the onerous oath.
"And yet we know that it's possible." She said referring to Mary's comment about how hard it is to find the Hearts "If the only solution was to truly walk this many Bastions, then it'd be a matter of belief-defying luck, or oracular abilities that are the stuff of legend. I haven't heard of such legends, so there must be a way. A method to the madness. Would it help to know which of the Gentry sent the Huntsman? Or what mortal was chosen for the... vessel?"
All the while she was focused on the Summer occultist - her words, her gestures and her expressions. The Torrent barely noticed being looked at by the other Ogre.
"I'm just looking for an in if evading the Hunt won't be enough."
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Post by Scorpio on Feb 19, 2022 15:43:35 GMT -8
"I'm mostly curious about what happens when the Heart is restored. Do you have a mundie, now? Or a Huntsman with its own free will? And am I to destroy it, or would would be the consequences of letting it walk away? If its in the Hedge, does the mundie die?" Scorpio frowned. She was following the basics of 'Huntsman being individuals' where some were monstrosities and warriors while others were cunning and played human chess.
"If I help a Huntsman regain their heart, does it make you a Loyalist?" she mused, casually examining her manicure as she side-eyed the others. It might have been why Mary was reluctant to enter this topic.
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Post by Bloody Mary on Feb 19, 2022 16:31:26 GMT -8
Blaze could tell that the Ogre was actively discouraging hope and curiosity to prevent engagement with the Heart ritual. The wrathful crone and veteran general of vengeance knew a thing or two about what could be brought down on her peoples' heads if the inexperienced start trying to bargain and trick the Huntsman. The fact that Vegas Lost lived a life of perpetual peace meant that Mary would grind down individual pride and glory hounding, or even the basic charity of helping out a friend ending in disaster for the unprepared.
In terms of agreeing to teach — Reading a book on surviving a sinking ship and overcoming one was another thing entirely. What's been going on this year feeding the anger of the Summers would be contributing to being jaded about trusting the next generation.
Mary gave a shallow nod, agreeing with Wayland pointing out one of the biggest hurtles of this being a widespread practice — the vast majority of Lost not being occult specialists, and the Dream World being unpredictable and as madness inducing as the Hedge.
Gavin's question on how they can come from an individual but look like anyone warranted some explanation. "A person. It is because the Mask has no meaning. No thought to what this once was coming from the being itself renders the trick of glamour unstable. We will see what we project. Only the Hedge reveals, where the uncertainty of its former humanity is left on another plane. Think of how the Mirrorskin sees themselves and a Mask construct of someone who doesn't exist. The only thing that remains solid is the panoply—always the weapon and uniform of to the Title."
"Finding the hiding place would require an ordeal of investigation and likely cannot be accomplished by an individual. Perhaps this is why they cannot help themselves. You do not need to be an Oracle, Blaze, to pay a Hob that witnessed the ritual. It would help to know the nature of the thief, yes, like anything else a motive provides a pattern we can follow; even if we are just making it up." She glanced at the Autumn courtier with some knowing. "A Keeper has preferences to their targets. They are always furious when what they have found and taken is lost, like bloody toddlers. Now," she tapped her stone-grey temple with a deep, crackling frown,
"Imagine the hatred for those who refuse to be taken in the first place."
The gift of humanity is given back, at the cost of their peace — no rest for the wicked.
She sat back and took another pull of her beer, and grunting into the glass as Scorpio mused. "That depends on what the Huntsman decides. You've chosen to give it free will, and it will exercise it. The impacts of the Wyrd are never entirely escaped, even with humans who engage with the Lost under the glamour of innocence. The status of your devotion to the Freehold would remain at the feet of public opinion, the Oath, and whether you found yourself trying to play a battle of wits with a Gentry Title. They write the rules, and can't comprehend the concept of playing fair. The way a Changeling fashions an Oath in comparison is childish and limited to our anchors in sanity."
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Post by Blaze on Feb 22, 2022 3:38:37 GMT -8
It was clear that Mary is trying to shut them down, or at least instill a sense of dread preventing them from engaging the Huntsmen. Which was understandable and perhaps accidentally in line with what Winter would push for. Unfortunately, they don't really have a choice in the matter. Taking massive risks and playing with fire is what they must do.
"Is the freed person likely to remember or be affected by its time as a vessel? We don't recall most of what happened to us, after all." She was trying to draw a parallel, futile as that might be. It was increasingly obvious that Huntsmen were disturbingly unlike anything fae in many respects "It could be an unique intel-gathering opportunity if they could tell us something - unless they emerge mad and with the Gentry's shadow looming over them, in which case it might be more humane to put them out of their misery."
The Torrent half-expected the elder Ogre to shoot her hopes down out of reflex if nothing else.
"Of course, that's assuming their death doesn't attract the Fae like the death of a true Huntsman does."
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Post by Gavin Graves on Feb 22, 2022 19:10:59 GMT -8
So there were only the tiniest shreds of the overrun human and the vagaries of the Title's influence to glean insight from. A tough nut to crack indeed. It is unlikely then that its presented form would help to identify the person behind it, but perhaps some might cling harder to their image.
The approach of plying a Goblin for the necessary details to find the Bastion cloaking its heart was good to know. Though it was well within Autumn's purview to solve things with Oracular talent, Gavin had never show the knack for it to date. The Hedge and its citizens were more in line with his expertise anyhow and he'd have allies in that venture should he choose it.
"So that iconography that was the same across all the Death's Head Moth's appearances was its tell and a subtle indicator of the Title behind it, hmm." He wondered if that particular quick had anything to do with the Bargain with the Leaden Mirror compelling them to Herald their presence. "So their uniform and equipment would follow suit I'd imagine, as immortal and static as the Title. If they are as static and foundational as you say, then separating them from the physical objects would do little too in the long run." Would the creature simply manifest more, be kept busy replenishing it for a while, or set its priority toward its recovery, he wondered. Mitch now possessed the Angel of Blades' weapon and somewhere in the Summer vaults contained the nightmare's raiment. What would happen when it reformed? Loki had a lot of it so surely there was a way to keep it.
Gavin smirked sheepishly, a bit of a confession at Mary's hinting that esoterica was more an art than a science. He knew all too well much of what he had done to contain the Fae curse could have easily been laid on a foundation of shifting sand and come to nothing, and possibly doomed a great many people to a terrible fate. He had been telling a story and attempted to echo it off the halls of past legendry to borrow its power. Certainly not all legends will hold equal power or work on all faced adversaries. It was likely critically important to align the magic to the Title as he had done by instinct and through the generous whispers of Autumn's crisp fallen leaves. "Yeah, I had the right people, the right magic, the right ancient tome, and went all-in on my guess. I really thought I had it all together perfectly with every angle covered. Even then it still required a small tweak from a greater occultist for it to work as intended. Glad I had my work checked out by an expert. Working custom rituals is no joke. So just knowing that this is technically possible wouldn't do many of us much good."
Those same instincts and whispers now raised questions about the Ogre's use of this knowledge.
"How did you come by this expertise? How have you used it, and why?" Real world applications and personal connection to the knowledge could ground its use in wisdom.
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Post by Wayland on Feb 23, 2022 14:33:38 GMT -8
See, this is why Wayland takes notes. She feels like she’s only following about half the conversation right now. But her pages are being filled with the relevant phrases. Or at least, the phrases she hopes are relevant.
Sometimes she worries that Mary might think her a poor student. She’s good at following instructions, but not so much following the twisted analogies that are necessary to describe the theory. If the occult were a language, Wayland would find the vocabulary easy to grasp, but struggle with things like grammar and idioms.
She often finds herself relying on instinct. There is a part of her for whom all of this makes much more sense. A hunger that is whetted by knowledge and satiated only by secrets. It’s a part of her that speaks when she wonders if Blaze’s fire could be harnessed in her forge, what sort of charm she could make from Gavin’s claws, if there is a way to capture Scorpio’s shifting shadows and lash them to her will. It’s uncomfortable to think about, but it’s what she leans on when she embarks on crafting Tokens.
It seems doubtful that Isla could ever return to anything like a normal life. Trauma leaves a mark, always. But the idea that they could free her from bondage fuels the furnace in Wayland’s chest, the engine called Wrath that can take injustice and mistreatment and turn it into righteous action. Maybe Mary’s right, maybe it’s a fool’s errand. But if it’s possible, Wayland definitely wants to find out.
She remains silent, just trying to keep up, thoughts running like a river alongside the conversation, pencil scratching across her page.
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Post by Bloody Mary on Feb 23, 2022 21:40:29 GMT -8
"Yes, the Huntsman remains or chooses to return to humanity," Mary clarified. "The Gentry's command is the only thing that no longer holds influence. If you decide to kill it and return it to its primal source, the Fae already knew about its Title returning and remembers the chamber of the stolen heart."
She grimaced, cataracts unblinking on the Torrent.
"I am the Knight Commander of an ancient order of vengeance," she said plainly to Gavin after a moment. Her expression darkened, accepting a nervous Mirror would question her credentials, but not having to like it.
"I trained the current regime of Summer nobility. Though, a traditional unit doesn't tend to march across the Hedge in a crusade. We killed Huntsman. We learned how to really kill them in the Dream. The sacrifices to the Season were overseen by King Indra."
The fact that she wasn't looking at Wayland was actually a good thing. The Maker had learned that having Bloody Mary's full attention often meant the dire Witchtooth was to bring down the hammer of ill fortune and dark tidings.
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Post by Gavin Graves on Feb 27, 2022 20:31:03 GMT -8
The Ogre had blasted an intensity in his direction before, but this had gone beyond what he had come to accept as the usual cantankerous demeanor for a Summer Ogre.
"Sorry. Wasn't meaning to provoke. I was trying to get you to frame up for us how you think this knowledge could conditionally be used well based on your own experience. You learned it. You used it. You're still alive and in good standing. Clearly there's wisdom somewhere in the details."
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Post by Wayland on Mar 2, 2022 14:30:19 GMT -8
‘Overseen by king indra’ gets written out and underlined. So much of this Freehold’s present is tied up in it’s history. You peel back a layer, and it just gets deeper. Sometimes you find structural supports, foundations, like frames under drywall. And sometimes you find injuries, breaks, wounds that haven’t healed under scabs you’ve just picked at.
Wayland doesn’t like living in a minefield.
The Ogre finds her gaze lifting and settling on Scorpio. They’ve moved on from the Paladin’s point by now, well moved on. But sometimes it takes Wayland a little longer to process than other people. Some people do that process out loud, you can see it, you can hear it. For Wayland, it’s usually more internal, the slow grinding of teeth, wearing a thought down to it’s base essentials.
Her eyes flick to Mary, “If I understand things right… it seems like the mundies Huntsmen… possess, are unwilling participants in this process.” The end of that statement tilts up almost, but not quite, like a question. As if Wayland’s trying to leave room for her mentor to correct her error.
Then her attention returns to Scorpio, “So if helping a Huntsman regain their heart means turning a dangerous enemy into a non-combatant, or at least a neutral power… I don’t see how that could be…” Her brows come together slightly as she searches for the word, “Construed as aiding the enemy.”
She turns to face Mary again. “Gavin has a point,” her head tilts towards him, though her eyes remain on the Tolltaker. “I can understand why you wouldn’t want us to be careless with this information. But I should think the fact that we’re asking for help instead of raring off on our own would be a good sign. I don’t think any of us,” her eyes flick to Gavin, to Scorpio, to Blaze, then back to Mary, “Intend to just sit back and wait for a Huntsman to knock on our door. This is a problem we want to face, if it’s at all possible that we can.
“So how about it, Mary? You’ve told us a lot, and I’m already grateful for that. But how would you want us to use the information we have?” Wayland doesn’t think Mary means to warn them off this path, but if she does, this would be the time.
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Post by Blaze on Mar 3, 2022 8:12:10 GMT -8
That was quite a lot of information, verbal and otherwise, made harder to digest by Mary's mood suddenly souring and her countenance becoming more intense. Blaze wanted to ask for something - for a start, what kind of sacrifices had to be made and who King Indra was, if only so they are ready to make those sacrifices themselves - but decided against it. Wayland and Gavin have already thrown a lot at the Tolltaker, and in truth the Torrent was curious to hear her come clean about her motives.
She knew that Mary wanted to shut them down, but surely there were more decisive ways to do that if she wanted to stop the hunt altogether. So the Witchtooth was playing at something else. But what?
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Post by Bloody Mary on Mar 3, 2022 13:34:42 GMT -8
She gave Gavin a moment to settle, clarifying Wayland's points first. "They are suffering their own Durance, as it were. What Scorpio has pointed out is not all Huntsman will be quelled, happy, or indebted to your charity. You are either successful or will be held responsible by those impacted by the fallout."
She finished the second pint as she reflected.
"What I want is for you to protect yourselves and your loved ones, or those outbound to your protection. The pursuit of Huntsman is not a communal activity for a reason. You approached me with the pretense that you wished to educate the population in how to deal with their Huntsman and assist in their defense."
It's admirable."
Not all those who are Lost will be successful, and likely die, or be recruited to hunt another."
She could hand them an instruction manual and encourage them to be safe, but the Crone had seen many unnecessary deaths in her lifetime in the name of Wrath or the boundless curiosity of the Leaden Mirror.
"You asked a question and I answered," she said to Gavin, listening to everyone's tone shift to a meeker position. It wasn't like the Beast had kicked a hornet's nest at her.
"If you want a step-by-step protocol, mister Graves, we can dedicate time for different types and profiles. It's detective work as much as anything else, and a temperment of assertion and shrewdness that would allow you to navigate the unspoken nuances of Arcadian trickery."
"Are you wanting a story?"
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Post by Blaze on Mar 7, 2022 11:10:51 GMT -8
Bloody Mary sounded like she stopped just short of giving them all a pat on the head for being such good little students. Probably without meaning to, the Witchtooth came off a bit patronizing there, but on the other hand when you are this experienced you earn the right to do that. Blaze respected knowledge and chain of command, even if the Summer knight wasn't technically her superior.
"It's probably worthwhile to go over those in more detail in time. Huntsmen aren't a subject worth cutting corners on."
Honestly nothing fae-related is, making the statement a touch trite but it doesn't matter, what matters is for them to get as much out of this meeting as possible so their life expectancy is not measured in weeks or months.
"A story is how most things begin in our world... so I suppose that's a yes from me. You spoke of King Indra and of the sacrifices he oversaw. Are they part of that story?"
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Post by Gavin Graves on Mar 7, 2022 14:45:33 GMT -8
Summer sacrifices. Huntsmen. Huntsmen were people. Huntsmen were Summer's sacrifices.
The Beast had been so caught up in his own line of inquiry that he had almost missed the thread in front of him. He quieted to ponder what else he may have missed in the lesson so far.
He simply nodded in agreement with each Mary and Blaze's suggestions, it was what he was after anyway. He could go through the breadth of their capabilities and a number of cases with Mary at later appointments.
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Post by Bloody Mary on Mar 11, 2022 23:29:40 GMT -8
The old Ogre stared off, delving into the past when her hair was only partially grey.
"A bloody noble contracted us to retrieve her husband, before his soul was fettered to the undying shores. The shanty town hadn't existed long enough for any real attention, but the black shores promised the Thorns in the undertow of its waves, and we knew a Keeper called from the horizon.
"Revenge on a privateer contract is clean, but the bastard only wanted a motley alone and away from the wards, leading us to only rescue the tortured mundie to have him blow a clarion and summon a Hunt. We thought it was suicide, but he had already received a token of freedom for luring us. The husband was a random victim.
"I lost two Toll Takers to its beasts getting to a portal where the Huntsman followed us before we destroyed it... only for it to return within the month with friends and family under direct threat. We realized who it was seeking, and the choice of leaving it be was no longer on the table." She shook her head, not offering the name or the overarching political situation she was trapped in at the time.
"It came to its senses on our side of the tracks, trying to cut a deal and seeking any scrap of leverage over its true target as we played it cold. The Huntsman called us on our bluff, and killed one of the hostages, and that's when I offered to lead it to its target's dream if it played along.
"We asked for where it was tasked with the Hunt, and sent another in secret to investigate. The goblin debt was steep, but with looking through time and paying the tithe to the Hedge, and with Wyrd fate of the Arcadian Crown, and Autumn augury, we eventually followed the crumbs to the Bastion. The Huntsman followed, waiting for us to honour our sacred pact, and we dove into the storm to solve the mundie's inner riddles and present the prize to our enemy.
"We did not wait to see what it would choose. We could not sunder our oath to kill it, for we would never be able to please the Title we were to betray. We did, however, put our mercy in the hands of its target as we gave warning of our arrival, and their own motley destroyed it. Even with the heart, the creature was so bitter and lacking purpose that it needed to behold the source of its suffering.
If anyone had died, we would have been marked traitors of the Freehold for our lapse in vigil.
So, to answer your question Scorpio once again: your honour solely exists on the results."
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